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May 11, 2007


The Fat Lady Sings

Thank you for this, my dear. I was going to post the exact same thing (I added their picture so people can see the assholes). I've already sent out my letters. I can only hope everyone does. There is satire - and then there is this. They weren’t making a point that this kind of talk is bad - they were indulging in hate speech for its own sake. I hope like hell XM Radio fires their ass!


I am torn on this.
Much as I hate anything to do with the pejoration of women, or gays, or children, or poor, or any group that traditionally has been on the outside looking in to those who hold the power, I also hold dear the right guaranteed in the 1st Amendment for people to say whatever they want to say, and the right of people to listen, or not listen.
Having said that, I do not think that comments such as their "guest" said are tolerable by any standard. As sick humor goes, it is less humorous/more offensive than usual fare.

But their right to say what they want to say is to me precious. It is all relative in perspective---what I consider to be humorous someone else may consider not funny. While I might laugh at a joke about the administration, they might not think it a joke at all. They may consider it offensive and even brand it seditious. It is all relative.
The one thing that underpins our freedom in this country is our ability to say whatever we want to say. But I stopped short of saying "without fear"----herein lies the rub----if you now say the word "bomb" at the airports in America you may find yourself quickly handcuffed and charged with a crime under the Patriot Act. If you oppose the policies of the US you may find yourself no longer working at the major news stations. If you speak your mind in any social setting you may find yourself blacklisted or shunned by that group---not exactly the paradigmatic model of freedom we would like to project to the world.
Anytime there is an attitude re others that isn't allowed to be expressed where it can be challenged, contested, argued---it can fester clandestinely, and that is even sicker than disclosure. That continues the sickness: "Sickness thrives in secrecy."
I believe that proclaiming the "humor" of that show as disgusting and demoting to women is necessary. I believe that the message from the community ought to be that rape or forced sex or violence against women and children is damaging to them and to society.
But I must say that the 1st Amendment allows them to say it---and we must not confuse the natural outrage of civility with censorship. To do so would be to weaken the fabric of freedom woven by that Amendment. We could endanger that Amendment, and it is the cornerstone of our freedom.
For the longest time the moral censors in this country denied the validity of that Amendment---look at Lenny Bruce and what happened to him. Look at the broadcast "standards" that disallowed any words Comstock&Co found offensive and the endless blocking of writers' freedom. Look at the fear of nudity that pervades our TV viewing and extends to our dressing and bathing habits.
The puritans are alive and well in America, always have been, and it doesn't take much for them to step from their graves eager for more witchhunting.
Again, I am on the side that community response is demanded---but I also think that failure to honor our freedom of speech is equally if not more dangerous.

The Fat Lady Sings

I understand your point, my friend - but protesting their show isn't censorship. It's allowing the marketplace to determine what's allowable. We tell sponsors we won't buy products advertised on programs that promote hate speech. I'm betting they also got some letters from people who said they just loved Opie and Anthony. I'm really hoping there are more of us than them. That way Opie and Anthony will find themselves out on their respective arses. Don't censor 'em - fire 'em if they drive away advertisers. Of course - there's the whole 'do what's right' ethos; but very few business give a good god-damn about that. What Opie and Anthony did wasn't right. If they wanted to satirize (as Howard Stern does) they should have done it differently. Did you listen to the clip? Pure hate. Had I been a woman in that studio I would have felt threatened. Now - I am NOT a fan of Howard Stern - but he's just stupid and gross – not threatening. Bodily function humor - tits and ass bullshit. I think it's often beyond the pale - but I do not recall ever hearing him advocating rape or murder. These guys deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions. So I hope lots of letters are sent, and they get fired. Marketplace of ideas at work. Hoorah!

Mimus Pauly

Those two jackasses are still on the air?

I confess, I used to listen to them regularly years ago, when they were on WAAF in Worcester, Mass. Then I moved to Virginia, and frankly, I didn't miss them one bit. I thought they were hilarious way back when. These days, like I said, I think they're jackasses...


I'm just sure if Beavus & Butthead were named Habibi and Mohammad they'ld be in Gito by now.


I am amazed you say Howard Stern "isn't threatening . . . just stupid and gross."

My. Oh my.

I listened to Stern years ago when he was syndicated, before the move to Sirius, and usually ended up turning him off because I was offended. And I'm a guy.
His humiliation of, belittlement of, degradation of, and general characterization of women as shallow and pornographic sex objects --as incapable of intelligent thought and not to be taken seriously--- is the sum essence of every anti-female putdown the patriarchy has ever advanced.
"I'm just joking, can't you take a joke"---has been his response to criticsm when it is fairly obvious to anyone listening to his show that the jokees are consistently being labeled and typecast. And diminished.
Again, I turned him off. That is my right as a listener, as a consumer. It got to the point where I would no longer even tune to his show. I found it insufferable. But I defend his right to make an ass of himself through the protection of the 1st Amendment. I also wish that those who are affronted by his show would attack him through the courts with defamation suits----the women of this country, similar to the labor unions, have lost a vital edge starting somewhere during the 70's or the Reagan 80's. The pro-feminist power that seemed to have momentum slowed since that time and lately appears to be a tentative tiptoe instead of the forceful march it once was.
We have not had outstanding and charismatic leadership among the women's movement---there have not been any key players for 20 years who genuinely assert the feminine perspective and demand equality.

The women in America have almost gone into hiding the last 6 years..... political types like the late Bella Abzug, outspokenly oppositional, no longer grab our attention. Hillary Clinton is one step away from gender neutrality so fearful is she to appear less warlike than those selfish men who have appropriated the country and its coffers for themselves.

True feminism could save this country from the path it has selected. I repeat again what I said earlier here that what is needed is a special election mandated by a Constitutional Amendment that would replace every other man in Congress with a woman. 50 Senators male, 50 female; 218 Representatives female, 217 male. And also mandate term limits so that the incumbency could no longer create a ruling class with a lifeforce of its own.

Stern's piggish as they come. The last thing we need is someone with a large audience putting down women every chance they get. But then, we have Limbaugh as well. He's oinking at women. So is Hannity with his false machismo. And Savage. And Beck. etc. etc. What we don't need is Katie Courics----mega hype and little substance to try to convince us that women are being given a fair trial in the man's dominion . . .but just not working out.

The Fat Lady Sings

The last time I listened to Howard Stern was twenty years ago. Back then he was stupid and gross and I quickly lost interest. If he has indeed advocated violence against women (as have Opie and Anthony) then he deserves the exact same fate. Has he? Because I don't ever remember anyone pointing that out; misogyny, yes - but has he called for anyone to be raped to death? Seriously - has he? Point me to it my friend – because that would mean another letter writing campaign has to begin.


FLS...I'm so sorry people have the bad manners to speak to you this way. You people that have come here can surely make your point without using body part names I should think. the honor of free speech...right back at you guys!

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